This is an insult to every american who lived by the rules.

It seems to me that in order to get help, we all need to stop making out mortgage payments and maybe at that time, we will get help to modify our rate. Unfortunately, we can't do that..... but what other choice do we have.

What we don't understand is that we as americans continue to vote for these politicians that create all these loopholes. Every politican who voted for the $700 Billion Wall Street Bailout should not be voted in office again. Why? Because word on the street that come December, the Wall Street bonuses will be coming out and it suppose to be bigger than last year. That is right, I said it. Some of our tax dollars will be used to pay bonuses to the same people who helped create and package this mess.

When you bailout, you reward bad behavior....

We can't control what has happened but we do control how we vote....

Everyone who is saying no, I say this, I think you re all wrong. If you can bail out this company with 700 billion dollars, than why not help your own people. I am a 22 years vet retired in 1998 from the U.S. Army. We can send money to Iraq and to Afghanistan then we can help bail out our own people, who are facing foreclosure, we have pump so much money into Iraq helping them clean up their front yard when our own back yard is in a mess and we lost 80 billion dollars give or take that know where it went. And to top this we are issue H1B visa to people outside the United State to come over here to work and fill the opening for the professional jobs we have for 6 years and 10 years if its DOD contract, and Bill Gate are calling for so many more thousands H1B Visa’s to bring more, instead of educating our own people. $90,000 hunting trip, need say more.

Ridiculous...... what are the rest of us going to get for playing within the rules --- nothing!  Those that over extended should pay.  Those that stayed within there means should be able to take advantage or sit on the sidelines and watch the carnage.  That has always been the American Way!  Why are we changing now?  

Not no, heck no.  My neighbors and I bought at the same time.  I lived like a pauper to pay off my mortgage.  Saved every dime and made extra payments.  My neighbors bought SUVs and jet skiis.  Now I've paid off my home and they are at risk for foreclosure.  You want me to bail them out?  You've got to be kidding.  Both of our houses have dropped 25% in value.  They have the toys and now I have to bail them out.  This makes no sense whatsoever.

NO!

With what money!? Just printing dollars isn't a cure, it's diluting our dollars value terribly. They want to create a second Zimbabwe?

Grief

No?  How can you possibly say that AFTER the largest Bank bailout in American history?  The architects of this economic disaster, the ones who approved bad loans, the ones who sold CDS guarantee's without any capital to back it up, get rewarded, and the ones who were "duped" into signing the bottom line on home loans they never should have been approved for, get pissed on. 

But that isn't the reason I think homeowners need help.  The government needs to freeze all foreclosures for 1st time primary residence homebuyers, renegotiate fixed rate loans based on todays value, and have banks that approved the loans eat the losses.  

What you don't understand is 10,000 homeowners are foreclosing every day.  Which is why values are still declining, and why your town or city is facing huge budget cuts due to reduced property tax revenue.

NO!  Why should one be forced to pay for their neighbors mortgage when they had the foresight to rent?  Not only will they be paying for a luxury they were smart enough not to get in to, but the special inflation of the housing markets will make it so they will have to stay renting for a very long time.

People need to suck it up and be accountable for their own financial decisions and the housing market needs to take a down turn for a while.  It's a natural cycle we have always had.

I invested in a risky stock, wanting to get rich quick and lost all my money, can the government bail ME out while they are at it?  After all, they do have a money making machine   ...The irresponsibility and stupidity of it all hurts...

A. Columbo... and bailing out banks is better?

NO!  

People should learn a lesson if they borrowed money beyond their means.  I work really hard to make sure my mortgage is paid on time (and a little extra too) and I live in a house that is too small for my family in order to make sure I am not over-extended.  Everyone in this country is not entitled to have a mansion.  If they over-spent, it is their fault.  There is no one else to blame.  My bank tried to loan me $300,000 when I went to buy a house.  My husband actually looked the banker in the eye (this was in 2006) and said "Why on earth would you lend us that much money?  We can't afford that!"  It wasn't the banker's decision to buy a house that big.  It was ours.  And we didn't.  THAT is the decision these others have failed to make.  I personally am not going to "spread my wealth around" so someone else can live in their $300,000 house when they should have bought a $100,000 house like I did.

I think it's a wise idea to help homeowners prevent foreclosure.  Help people stay in their homes vs. bailing out automakers, and other big corps.  Bailing out big corps does nothing to help MILLIONS of our countrymen who are facing foreclosure, job loss, and loss of healthcare.  The gov. should also boost unemployment benefits and now more than ever, institute some type of healthcare benefits for all who are and will be uninsured b/c of layoffs.

After paying to bail out private investment banks who sheltered their profits from shareholders with golden parachutes, and were a major part of purchasing and selling 'toxic mortgages' that led to the current economic collapse........why do I have to pay more to bail out the auto industry who created crap cars that could not compete w/ foreign technology and quality, and failed to have a long term creative, business plans that dealt w/green technology, potential economic losses, and offered financing to individuals who couldn't afford car loans.....further worsening this crises and playing into the greed issues that are the foundation of the economic woes??????

I'd rather bail out the little guy this time since they are what keep the economy going.  Let the big corps figure out how to restructure themselves and get back on their feet.  True capitalists take the good and figure out how to stay afloat during the bad.

I dont have insurance, I dont own a car. My 19 year old son said to me the other day times are getting tough arent they ?  I told him not to worry because as times get tough, the tough get going. I know what it is like to have to cut corners. I have shown up to work when I'm sick because my daughter need the sick day more than I did. This will be a time when people that take advantage of economical situations will suffer. Some people in this world still know how to serve country and fellow man without question, to think of others before thinking of self. This is what I believe are to be the "REAL" Americans.

Bill Scoggin, no bailing out banks is just as bad if not worse.  I was using sarcasm to illustrate the stupidity of bailing out at all.

Does anyone understand that what you subsidize you get more of?  This is why we are in the mess we are in.  Mess up and move up

I read Sunday in the paper Malcom Berkos article about this guy complaining about he could not borrow $42k for a car he wanted.  Note I said he wanted. He felt he was being discriminated against because he could not borrow the money. Called himself hard working middle class.  Its time to start saying no. Just say NO

Its time to make people pay for their ignorance.

In agreement with Bill Scoggin and GWB. For decades people have lived well beyond their means and have the job(s) that allow them to do so. But in our case, we had jobs that allowed us to pay on our house but lost them due to the down turn on the economy as well as the thousands of jobe that left our country. We are at risk of loosing our house due to more job layoffs and employment difficult if not near impossible to find. I believe that helping those that lost thier jobs due to the greed of our country should be helped. In one years time, the Federal Government has spent 456 Billion in aid to lenders and other financial institutions and to what end? They refuse to change how they do business but to continue to create the mess that got them there in the first place. People need to start to live within their means, pay for necessities and not niceties. Cell phones are not a necessity, believe it or not and neither is that flat screen tv or anything that takes presidence over a persons basic needs such as shelter, food, and clothing. When children are not getting the food they need because the parent(s) feel that material things are more important, something is terribly wrong. The Government needs revenue now more than ever and to do that jobs must come back to our country instead of bailing out the corporations that put us in this situation in the first place.

Absolutely, count me in...

I can afford to pay my mortgage, but why should I when the government is going to do it for me. I'm off to help the economy by clearing out my bank account on things I want but really can't afford. Then people will feel sorry for me too and I can stick my hand out and get my fair share.

What you don't understand is 10,000 homeowners are foreclosing every day.  Which is why values are still declining,

Property values can decline. No market goes up forever.

and why your town or city is facing huge budget cuts due to reduced property tax revenue.

Then give the money to the town or city. Not to the homeowners who got themselves jammed up because they failed to do their homework before taking out a huge loan.

and why your town or city is facing huge budget cuts due to reduced property tax revenue.

Your city or county is facing budget cuts only if it expanded spending during the past few years, as most did.  The budget cuts are only returning it to the spending level they were at a few years ago.

Your "No" opinion is correct, but shoudl be further described.  "Hell No!"  "Are you out of your mind?"  "What are you thinking?"

The core problem is that by bailing out the people who made bad decisions we keep THEM in charge of our economy.  We already know that they screwed up bigtime.  We need to get rid of those people (it's called bankruptcy).

The $700 BILLION bailout is certain to make things worse for the exact same reason -- the banks that need bailouts were a big part of causing the problem.

As long as the people who caused the problem remain in charge, we cannot hope to get through this mess. 

What I'd like to see is instead of helping the individuals that screwed themselves, why not lower the overall mortgage rate from the current 6.whatever% or so down to like 3%- then EVERYONE could refi, get cash out to spend or horde, or give the people who really screwed up a payment they can handle, and also, with those refi's come incomes to all the banks offering them- in closing costs... They keep lowering the overall interest rate, so lets see all of us get some of that!!

No, all the people people who are 'under water' could not refinance because they owe more on the house than it's worth in today's market, and the banks would be unwilling to risk giving them a mortgage for what they owe.

Aah, yes, didn't think about that part of it... but if the rest of the USA (that has good credit but no extra CA$H) could do it, maybe we'd stimulate the economy? I dunno, I'm a HOUSEWIFE, I have no clue... just thoughts here!!

spare me. i am sick of people over spending. They bought McMansions that were out of their price range, on credit they couldn't afford, with no down payment, and any idiot could see that an adjustable rate mortgage was a sucker bet. We all knew the rates would go sky high! but they just had to have a new huge house in the right neighborhood didnt they? i make my payment on my modest house, in a nice neighborhood on a fixed rate mortgage that i can budget on even if, God forbid, my wife or i should lose a job. i had a ....get this.......A DOWN PAYMENT! and i bought a reasonable sized home at a good price and was happy and blessed to have it. And guess what? i can send my kids to college too because i didn't overextend myself.  PEOPLE WAKE UP AND TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF! ..........frickin democrats! "oh i was taken advantage of.....give me money!"    i see an underpass you can live under............nobody owes you anything

I could not agree with more.  People need to realize that they must live within their means.   If some one took out an ARM so that the could "afford" their home.  Then they couldn't afford it in the first place.

People need to stop believing the hype.  Not everyone gets a mercedes, a big house, designer clothes and handbags, and.... not everyone gets to go to college!  That's life.!

Institutions such as Countrywide were hailed as heros when they made subprime loans to people who obviously did not have the credit history to pay their mortgages.  Nothing down - ridiculous.  This program was undertaken because the "government" decided that "affordable housing" was desirable in the name of social engineering.  Now Countrywide is being villified.  Of course the government should not bail out these homeowners - doing so is only prolonging the pain of having the market correct the damage. 

The idea that they should clean up their own mess is great, however the companies that made the loans no longer own them.  Freddie and Fannie had no choice but to loan the money thanks to the Clinten years.  The only way to fix this is to do your homework and vote third party.  Most Libertarian and constitution parties would elimanate the federal reserve and shrink government!

Ken67 I understand what you are saying,but you have to think of the homeowners who had made their payments ,and the something happen because,I am one of them.I too have a legit loan that I made a downpayment on and payed on faithfully for 4 years not a big house.Just one that my family would feel comfortable in.Just a old farm house that was fixed up.I ran in to my problem when my wife found out she was gonna have our third child after our last was already 10 years old.She had to stop working in Oct of last year.I thought I could handle all the bills my dumbness,and I was even more dumb by getting some paydayloans,but my point is not everyone went and got a McMansion so don't paint everyone with the same brush.I would not trade my last little girl for anything!!She is a blessing from god.

Yeah, and what about us folks who have worked hard and paid off our house by sacreficing and making extra payments.  Don't we deserve something too?

i agree.ive been paying on my house for 27 years.when i started paying for it the interest rate was 14 %.the govt didnt help me out.i raised 3 kids with just 1 bathroom in the house!!!!! but its mine and i can sleep at night.

I'm pretty tired of hearing how people were"duped" into signing sub-prime mortgages.  That is just a crock.  Unless the illiterate got mortgages, everyone who signs a mortgage application with other than a large "X" knew that the income that was on the application was actual or fictional.  They also knew that their investment in the property was negligible.  If the government had stayed out of the mess and foreclosures would have proceeded at a normal rate, most of these houses would have now traded hands and perhaps the people who sold them in the first place (and made large profits in the rising real estate market) would have bought them all over again.  Of course, the SEC with their stupid "mark to market" rule should also be taken to task.  That absurd rule made good loans look bad and accelerated the fall of the markets.  Let's put the blame where it deservedly belongs.

 - AMEN to that!  I don't think people who took the sub-prime were really duped, I think they got greedy and wanted more thinking that the rates wouldn't get out of their control.  Well, they did.  That's seems to be the bigger problem in our society today, "playing the helpless victim.  People need to read around, ask questions, research... before getting into a house with mortgage.  This isn't like buying a toaster at Wal-Mart.  Throw in the inefficiencies of the Government, the SEC and banks and we all knew that disaster was coming.

go to google and put in, "credit lock down'.  Then see comment in my seed as he makes a lot of sense. 

As a side note...no one is returning to previous spending levels...this is just getting started now that national interest are no longer in the forefront (after bail was passed).

do your homework: "With the economy already suffering the strains of plunging housing prices, growing joblessness and the new-found austerity of debt-saturated consumers, many experts fear the fraying of the financial system could pin the nation in distress for years." NYTimes

"The paralysis in credit markets is changing how companies do business as banks pull back on loans or make them prohibitively expensive. Some companies are closing plants and stores, postponing takeovers and grabbing any available credit in a fight for survival." Business and Technology

"This is the toughest lending environment farmers have faced in about 25 years. At the same time, the agricultural sector has historically done better than other industries during a recession because of the local lenders' familiarity with the area, the safety net provided through farm bill programs and producers having crop and revenue insurance coverage." AP

Hey, anybody talkin about you yet?  And how about those credit card companies, what have you heard lately, just collections,...right?

now....Mortgage debt . The average American credit card debt is a home mortgage. This is most people's biggest asset and a home loan is most people's biggest debt. According to the US Census Bureau, only 30 percent of homeowners have no mortgage (2000). Therefore, the vast majority of homeowners have financed the cost. In addition to all of the benefits homeownership provides, mortgage holders also reap substantial tax benefits. The key to making this debt work for you is to build equity by paying down the mortgage over time. In some areas, homeowners also benefit from appreciation. In fact, according to the National Association of Realtors, US homeowners gained an average of $9,000 in property value in 2003. (American Credit Counselors)

and who benefited from that rising property value the most?  More then the guy looking for a tax break and rising equity?

I am doing a lot of your homework for you...wake up and stop blaming someone for doing what you did.  You may be closer to thier reality then as safe as you think you are....

and remember this fall out isn't over...................

Ditto what Xtina said. 

I agree with you 100%.  3 of my children are in the same position as you are.  They bust their buts to make the monthly payment on their homes and those properties have a market value 50% of what they paid.  Should I advise them to stop making the payments and jump on the free band wagon?

Ditto what Xtina said.

I agree Xtina.  Irresponsibility got the majority of these homeowners into this mess.  Why should our tax dollars bail them out?   What next?   Are they going to propose a bailout for people who can't pay their credit cards because they ran them up buying crap they did not need?  Why don't they pay off all of our bills why they are at it so no one learns the hard way that you need to make responsible choices in life.   I do know there are some people in a bad predicament due to no fault of their own but the majority of them made wrong choices.

Let's see...stupid homeowners benefit; now the good homeowners want the same.  I guess renters are supposed to pay for all this?  I'd like a lease reduction and a few months relief from having to make payments.  And 6 or more months to come up with money before i can be evicted if I fall behind.  Oh, and I'd like my student loans forgiven and my credit card debt.   There now, everyone's happy!  

Anyone see a problem?

Again, DITTO what Xtina said-We did and are doing our very best to keep up with everything-why should Irresponsibility be Rewarded? Isn't that Obama's Promise, to "redistribute the wealth?" what about giving it to those who Earned it for a change? Instead of creating more welfare, create jobs and stop supporting all the ones who Could work but refuse because "obama says we're Entitled to it".

Yes, you did the right thing. And, no, it's not fair that these idiots are getting help.

However the fact that you bought at the top of the market is an unfortunate consequence, and you'll most likely have to take that loss. It sucks. You have my sympathy (and I don't have much for anyone in this situation)... but, as they say, that's the breaks.

When you buy something like a home, there is ALWAYS a chance that the value will go down.

I agree....we put 20% down, put in a nice backyard with pool (cash) and owe about $150k more that the forclosures on my street are going for. We make our monthly payments on time...what are they gonna do to help us??? NOTHING...They will refinance all these people (who shouldnt of bought the house they did in the 1st place) at fair market value while all the rest of us have to suffer....we cant even refinance, unless we pay the mortgage company at closing...I DONT THINK SO!!!

I understand that theres always a chance of value going down on homes...but come on...last Sept my house appraised for $750k and now the banks are selling them for $450k..give me a break!!!! $350k loss in one year!!!

NO because it is unfair to help the idiots who agreed to these loans

In other words, what qualifies as fair is helping the banker idiots who told these people they could afford these loans knowing full well that they couldn't.  

Thats like rewarding the embezzler and telling the victim they were stupid for falling for a scheme.

Nice head work. 

Bill Scoggin, give me your credit card and back account number.  Trust me, you can afford it.

Bankers telling someone they can afford something they can't doesn't make them any less stupid for believing instead of reading the contract they were signing.  And who said anything about rewarding the lenders (embezzlers)?  They are getting screwed just as bad as anyone else.  While I pity someone that falls for a scheme, they are still stupid for doing so.

 And who said anything about rewarding the lenders (embezzlers)?  They are getting screwed just as bad as anyone else. 

Now  that is funny.  The 750 billion dollar bailout is really screwing them over, not to mention the hundreds of millions in CEO bonuses handed out before the house of cards fell.  Are you a banker by chance?

two wrongs don't make a right.  Any politician that voted for that bailout will not have my vote next week.

... yet not help the smart buyers who now owe more on their house than it is worth.

With all due respect, expecting that your home value would always increase is not very smart.  Housing values go up and down, and down had to be expected based on the slope of the price increases over the past decade.

I have never understood why people expect the home they live in to appreciate in value and make plans based on that expected appreciation.  A house is a place to live, something to call your own, and a lot of work.  But it is not a great investment as it requires maintenance and parts need replacement and repair.  Looking over long time periods, most homes appreciate at a rate consistent with inflation.

However, you signed a contract to pay so much, made a down payment, and borrowed the rest.  Just because the home value has dropped does not relieve you of the obligation any more than the depreciation one sees when one drives a new car off the lot relieves the buyer of repaying that loan.  No one is (yet) asking to have their new car loan to be canceled because they owe more than the vehicle is worth  But that is a different issue which we must deal with soon enough.

So you own more than the house is worth.  Yes, you either bought early or paid too much.  But you have a home.  That is a good thing.  Enjoy it.

Who would you suppose we help, then?

Now explain what over their head means.  YOur taking the easy way, "I am right, and all 'those' americans are wrong", they probably this and probably that....

Bush is deregulating as we speak...newest headline.....coal mines for one...and much more, lovely fellow.  Have you ever wanted to ruin something becasue you coudln't have it anymore? And the person who is going to get it needs to receive it in less then usable condition, so you can feel better...I did it once, when I was a kid.

and some homeowners are doing it to the homes they are walking out of because they have nothing left and the bank is now going to own it, after having in some cases behaving like a predator...I suppose your ok with the 700 billion of TAXpayer money you just gave to bankers....

So?

Before this mess if someone lost his/her job, there was a chance they would have to move. It sucks, but it's this little thing we like to call "life".

And there are sometimes in life where "no one wins", and that's the way it should be.

webbuster,

every failure to meet mortgage payment should be evaluated to look at the reasons

Not possible. What are criteria?  Do we look at every purchase they made and decide if it was ok?  If they took vacations, had new cars, premium cable all while not making their payments, is that ok?

If no help is provided, the banks will own a lot of empty houses.  No one wins. 

Wrong.  I WIN.  I get to buy a house cheap (actually, more like the "correct" price).

If your bank fails say good by to anything you had in an account there.

FDIC.  One of the few things that the government SHOULD actually be doing for us.

Very well said, JoePic3.

Keep money under the mattress SAVE for a rainy day !

If the government wants to help homeowners give all of use holding a mortgage a bailout.  I mean, I bought a house that I could afford. Sure I could have paid another 200,000 above my means but that would have been unwise.  It appears that if you are the bank and want to give bad loans or you are the uneducated and take the loan then they expect the tax payers to bail them out.  What should keep everyone from failing on their loans? I should stop paying my mortgage so that I can rewrite my loan for a better rate. WOW

Wrong.  I WIN.  I get to buy a house cheap (actually, more like the "correct" price).

My brother finally bought his first house recently, now that prices are getting more reasonable.

There was very, very, very little fraud in all of this. Why? Because the Government, in their efforts to give "The American Dream" to poor people, made all this stuff LEGAL.

You are correct in implying that there was no fraud so to speak. However, if it is ok to help big mortgage companies...who make on avg about 180K profit on a 100K home and bail out their greedy practices why not at least make them pay to fix their own damn mess?? BTW if these companies couldn't make it work with these kinds of profit margins what makes us think that they will be able to come back after we dump even more money into them.

If I opted into a low interest credit card but didnt see the fine print, would I still be held liable for the high interest coming within a year? Human nature is to see imediate gradification.

show me ED, show me where it is all Legal...then I will believe you, give me some facts...buddy.  ANd I will give you a place to start,

legislation for the sole purpose of reconstituting the constitution, americanfreedomcampaign.org, if your man enough to accept some truth. Your not a Reagan conservative are you...

that is ridiculas.  Not everyone in the position of losing thier homes are not working.  I had a job and my pay was cut and then cut again and then the rate adjusted and it was worth less than I owed on it.  So am I a peice of S***?  I worked hard and still lost everything.  Some people need to realize most of this was caused by people with College Educations and screwed the country

"Require" someone to buy a house?

I don't think so.

Maybe you were sarcastic in your comment, but I don't read it that way.

Bonnie,

I will try to refrain from making fun of your "college education" comment (that would be "ridiculas").

If you had purchased a home that was well within your means (not "at" your means), saved up money along the way, and done everything "right", you would have likely been better prepared for the unfortunate turn of events that left you in a tough situation.  While I feel bad for your plight, I do not see how it is MY responsibility to pay your mortgage.  I have lived in a small townhouse with a very small mortgage for 8 years.  My wife and I drive 2 7 year old cars.  We have sacraficed while watching many around us live in bigger houses, drive nicer cars, have big plasma tvs, I-Phones, and take nice vacations. 

Thanks to being conservative and avoiding the debt tempation, I still have money to put away after every paycheck, no credit card debt, and positive equity in my home. 

If you were not in a position to do these things than perhaps you should have found a nice place to rent.

Hey Joepics 3 good for you pat yourself on the back you did it.  Well guess what so did I, but I became very ill lost my job pulled all my savings to pay the bills guess what I am better now but I cant get a job and I will lose my home of 15 years.   Gee I hope it never happens to you.  Then what would you say. 

I agree that Sub prime mortage owners should not be bailed out and I agree that the banks shouln't be either.  Nothing is black or white at this point.  Be glad you are ok right now.  Life has a way of making things change real quick.  Keep saving and stay healthy.

So ......JoePic.......

Everyone greedy (mortgage brokers, lenders, banks, investment banks, people buying homes they couldn't afford, or business people looking to make a quick buck by flipping property (fyi - up to 30% of all the foreclosures were never occupied by the owners), and so on....) is at fault here and the bailout has been approved but the BOTTOM LINE IS:

HOW DO WE SPEND THE BAILOUT BILLIONS??????? 

I'm reluctant to continue supporting the businesses that cooked up and followed the recipe that started this whole collapse and prefer to have my tax dollars go towards helping the little guy who was probably too stupid and ignorant to recognize that they were being duped and victimized, or the little guy who lost his house b/c of a job loss, or had a medical problem that left him bankrupt.  Wake up!!! Preventing MORE foreclosures helps all you current homeowners (who can pay your bills) and prevents your home value from dropping further.

I don't think the bailout dollars should go towards continuing to fund golden parachutes - ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

GWB,  I'll go a step further and say that we shouldn't spend the bailout billions at all.  I'm reluctant to vote for anyone in congress who increases spending.  We complain about individuals living beyond their means and spending too much on their credit cards...   Well I'm sick that the federal governemnt keeps spending on my credit card, my child's credit card and probably their children's credit card to provide for people who should be providing for themselves.  Why should we bailout anyone?  Just to prop up a phony home value that was inflated by government regulations with no oversight.   I say let the homes be foreclosed, let the market set the price, let someone responsible buy the home at the real market value.  I have no problem waiting for the market to recover - a house is a home not an investment.

yeah, that makes sense.  Give more money to those citizens who screamed help we're going to fail and ruin the economy!  then waited for money to show up (9 largest banks got their piece). It all was sealed with a promise to help the citizen, with the citizens taxes, and now frightened and priviledged average people say screw my neighbor...that would make the next move...the Federal reserves bank with a lot more help from congress...to what?

think about it....meantime while back at the white house the puppet king is rubbing his hands together and doing what? he has lots of choices while citizens bicker over bones...

and over at the "What will our future look like" group.....desperation is causing beads of pearly sweat to accumulate as they work through the chaos to forstall the inevitable...

The American Freedom Campaign Agenda

(The American Freedom Agenda Act of 2007 (H.R. 3835), which addresses most of the issues outlined below, was introduced by U.S. Rep. Ron Paul on October 15, 2007. Click here to read the text of the bill.)

At critical moments in our history, Americans have been called upon to protect our Constitutional guarantees of liberty and justice. We face such a moment today. The American Freedom Campaign is a non-partisan citizens' alliance formed to reverse the abuse of executive power and restore our system of checks and balances with these ten goals:

Fully restore the right to challenge the legality of one's detention, or habeas corpus, and the right of detained suspects to be charged and brought to trial.

Prohibit torture and all cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.

Prohibit the use of secret evidence.

Prohibit the detention of anyone, including U.S. citizens, as an "enemy combatant" outside the battlefield, and on the President's say-so alone.

Prohibit the government from secretly breaking and entering our homes, tapping our phones or email, or seizing our computers without a court order, on the President's say-so alone.

Prohibit the President from "disappearing" anyone and holding them in secret detention.

Prohibit the executive from claiming "state secrets" to deny justice to victims of government misdeeds, and from claiming "executive privilege" to obstruct Congressional oversight and an open government.

Prohibit the abuse of signing statements, where the President seeks to disregard duly enacted provisions of bills.

Use the federal courts, or courts-martial, to charge and prosecute terrorism suspects, and close Guantanamo down.

Reaffirm that the Espionage Act does not prohibit journalists from reporting on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution.

YES, we helped the jerks who caused this mess, why not help everyone!

Had people not taken mortgages and failed to repay them we would not be having this "crisis".  The borrowers are the "jerks" (your words, not mine) who caused this.  They may have been "duped" by the "greedy" (ie trying to make money) lenders, they may have been convinced by their government that they have a right to a home (the stated intention of Fannie, Freddie, and most politicians was to increase home ownership), but they still signed on the dotted line for something they could not afford. 

I want to own a home too. I want my daughter to grow up in my garden. I knew I couldnt realisticly afford it two years ago and THANK GOD I had the foresight ! I invested in the stock market , took a chance and LOST! Pay me back my money please. I WORKED hard for that money!

 the government could simply give these people 6 - 12 months off from there mortgage

I love how "the government" is perceived to be this magical entity that can print money to do whatever they want (though that is, sadly, partly true).  Who's money are they spending to do that?  Or do they just force the banks to eat the loss? 

I do agree that a lot of people have been put into a bad situation due to job loss, job cut backs or no fault of their own, however if hours have been cut ( as mine were) they can get a second job ( as I did) until they find a better paying job or get back on their feet.    I am not against assistance for people who deserve it but why should some people get a pass on not paying their mortgage for a year per say while the rest of us who are equally struggling in one way or another do not get a pass on paying our bills for a year?    I think each of these cases should be forced into debt counseling before they receive any bailout help.     

JoePic3 - Yes the banks should absorb some of the losses.  They were plenty happy to absorb all of the profits.  Profits and losses go together in business, don't they?  The banks couldn't see it coming???  Please. When an interest rate on a house jumps from 2% to 11.9% after a couple of years, there are only a few people who will be able to cover the new payment.  Also, the people who signed up for the ARM loans were buying more house than they could afford and should not receive assistance.

I'm not talking about giving them 6 months off of their mortgage.  I'm saying freeze it for 6 months, then resume where they left off.  As for a second job, I am looking,  hope to find something soon...  Seen the sunday want ads lately,  looks more like a leaflet.  I don't want any hand outs, only saying a little extra time might help alot of people out...

z-dunbar,

That would be fine, had this not been meddled with. The way it was supposed to work was:

Banks only lend money to people they think can pay it back. (which is how it was for a very long time)
If they think someone is more risky, they charge higher fees and interest to hedge against the potential losses. If someone defaults, they foreclose, take what they can get for the property and take the loss.

The problem was:

Government wanted more people in homes and coerced banks into lending to higher risk borrowers.
If the mandate is to ensure more people have homes, the only way to do that is to lower the requirement to get a home and lower the payment amount. This equated to higher risk and less reward; not something any business wants to do.
Banks and GSEs needed to find new ways to hedge their higher risks and created mortgage backed securities and ARMs. They counted on increasing (or at least not decreasing) home values to ensure that the risk was covered. (listen to Raines, Frank, Dodd all talking about how safe, even "virtually without risk" home investments are)
When the demand for housing went up artificially (ie the "bubble") due to more accessibility to loans, supply was less causing pricing increases. This caused the illusion of security for these high risk mortgages. When the rates adjusted, people could no longer afford to pay the loans they really couldn't afford in the first place. The bubble popped.

This problem was caused by Government trying to put everyone in a house, people believing the hype that they are entitled to one, and banks trying to make lots of money by accommodating them all.

I have no problem with the banks taking a loss, that is capitalism at its finest. But this is the government telling business what they can earn, which is not what I signed up for.

If the government wants to continue the idealistic pursuit of homeownership for all, they either have to buy the houses for people, or tell the banks they can only make x%. They might as well start telling every other business (health care providers, oil companies, drug companies) the same thing. Oh wait, they are trying that too.

How long do you expect me to keep writing the checks for this?

How does giving people a little time to get caught up cost you anything?  If they don't make an effort to get caught up then by all means, foreclose.   I don't see how that will hurt your pocket.  By the way,  why is it okay to bailout big business in the name of helping the economy, but helping people is so wrong..... Double standard makes no sence to me...  I f the banks let someone take 3, 6, 9 months off before resuming their payments.. Meanwhile the interest on the loan piles on, they will make even more money carrying that loan 31 years instead of 30.  If they forclose, they might recoup 70 percent of their investment as well as the long term cost of maintaining that home while it is on the market. 

JoePic3 - The government should have said that banks could only make so much on the people buying a house.  The banks were very happy to take as much mark-up as they could get.  I am a finance director at a car dealership and ALL of my contracts either have a small flat ($100) or a small percentage cap that I can keep.  Why regulate the car business and not the mortgage business?  People say that car dealers are crooks - please look at how much money mortgage people made and banks made and you will be presented with the real definition of a crook.

People should be responsible for their own actions.  Consumers took the loans, banks made the loans and now they have to lie in the beds that they made for themselves.

Tom,

How does giving people a little time to get caught up cost you anything? 

You said, (paraphrase) "the government should give these people a little time" in your original post.  To do that, they either tell the banks to stop collecting the money, or they pay the banks instead.  If the government is paying, then it is coming from US. 

If the government is not paying it then we are asking the bank to give up their income.  Do you (or your business) want to go without your income for 6-9 months?

why is it okay to bailout big business in the name of helping the economy, but helping people is so wrong

It was NOT OK.  I believe that action was AT LEAST as wrong, if not worse.  But that is a different topic.

As for the banks making money on the deal, if it was that good of a deal they wouldn't have to be forced to do it.

z-dunbar,

Why regulate the car business and not the mortgage business?

???  Mortgage businesses are heavily regulated.  And what are you saying about caps on profit for car dealerships?  Is that why a GT500 or Z06 would go for $20k over list?  Are you delusional or just trying to distort the facts to make your point?

The price of any product or service is what one person is willing to pay and the other is willing to accept.  If someone is willing to pay me $10,000 for a toothpick then where is the crime?  If I am willing to take a loan at 50% interest, and someone is willing to give it to me, why not?

As soon as the government tries to tell a business what they can and cannot earn, that business will be GONE.  That is UN-AMERICAN and will be our end.

The price of any product or service is what one person is willing to pay and the other is willing to accept.  If someone is willing to pay me $10,000 for a toothpick then where is the crime?  If I am willing to take a loan at 50% interest, and someone is willing to give it to me, why not?

JoePic3.....I think you are blurring the line between capitalism and greed.   it's greedy people like YOU who have created this economic disaster.  I don't really care if you are a bank and not making a profit at the moment or go belly up - it serves you right for not being honest and screwing over others while you make a profit.  Now, if I may quote you..........

That is UN-AMERICAN and will be our end!

GWB,

How dare you assess me as greedy without knowing anything about me.  It is clear from your handle and your comments that you are simply trying to be inflamatory, so I'll take your comments for the useless dribble they are.

Now, please, for the record, tell me how much someone or some company is "allowed" to make before they are considered greedy?  What would King GWB enact as the "National Income Limit"? 

By the way, I already mentioned that I opposed giving the banks money as well.  But please don't forget that the banks provide the capital to fund businesses which provide jobs, products, and services, and are owned (and invested in) by actual people who are also trying to make a living. 

I know this is all falling on deaf ears.  I know, I know, big business is bad, Bush Lied People Died, 1/20/09, power to the people.  One day I'll be indoctrinated.

By the way, GWB...

How many high-def big-screen tvs do YOU own?  What is the average age of YOUR vehicles?  How big is YOUR house?  How much of YOUR time and YOUR money to spend willingly on OTHERS?  Do YOU have an I-Phone or I-Pod?  How many weeks of vacation to YOU spend a year?

1, 27" lcd.  6.5 years.  1180 sq ft townhouse ($138,000 in MA).  A lot for my children's schools and community organizations.  No and no.  1.5 weeks.

Instead, I put money into my 401k and mutual funds.  I pay for my wife's college classes (and help with my daughters).  I put off rewards today so I can reap the benefits of my hard work later.  I do all of this on a single salary (so my wife can raise the children [her choice] and pursue her own dreams) that could easily afford much more.

Darn it.  I let you get to me afterall.  Good job.

JoePic3 - If you read my comments, I was talking about the financial end of the car business not the sales portion because we are talking about ARM loans and other similar situations that got us into some of this mess.  I did not at any time say that a person couldn't sell his house for whatever someone would pay for it.  Z06s bring in amounts that are over sticker because they are limited production and because people are willing to pay for it.  No one makes you buy a Z06 and no one makes you buy a house that you really can't afford.  We are adults and we make our own decisions, right?  Why wouldn't we be held accountable for these decisions?

I purchased a home in January with a fixed rate and I did it within my budget.  The person who did the loan paperwork was the same person who did a friend's loan on her house.  I have a 700 credit score and had a decent down payment.  It wasn't like I had a 580 score and no money down so it was one of his easier loans to get done.  He wanted thousands of dollars to write the paperwork and he got thousands on the back end from the bank also.  The credit bureau that he pulled was only a couple of dollars but I was charged $50 for it.  There were thousands of dollars in fees that were non-negotiable and were inflated beyond reason.  I checked around and it turned out that I couldn't get the house without paying every single one of the inflated fees.  I have no problem with someone making a profit but come on, some of these fees are ridiculous.  This is the type of regulation that I was referring to in my discussion.  And ........ no .... I am not delusional.

z-dunbar,

Sorry, I did not understand your comments.  But how are fees charged by those processing the mortgages any different from premiums paid for cars, or any other product for that matter. 

I went into a jewelry store and was looking at watches for my wife.  I saw one that was very expensive (about $3000, much more than I was willing to spend!).  I went home and looked on line and found that the watch was listed on many online sites for $1500.  That is a 100% markup!!!  That should be outlawed, right?  Except I had a choice.  I could get the watch elsewhere and pay less for it.  Or, I could go with a cheaper watch, or I could just not buy one.

You appear (and forgive me if I am wrong) to be putting homes into a special category because they are... a right?  a "required" purchase?  really expensive? 

Financing several hundreds of thousands of dollars can be very rewarding for banks, and it can also be very risky.  They are also putting out a lot of money and getting their return over time (an even longer time in the case of some of the sub-prime types).  Making money up front is their perogative, and yours to reject if you don't like the terms. 

Again, my fundamental questions are, who gets to say how much a business can and cannot make, which businesses do they get to make that decision for, and where does it stop?

JoePic3 - I would have loved to reject the fees if there would have been another option while still being allowed to have the house.  If I would have found another loan officer with lower fees like you did with the watch then I would have chosen the new loan officer but that was not an option (not due to a lack of looking).  I saved every penny for 7 years to afford the house that I wanted and paid off all of my credit cards at the same time while raising my daughter so yes, I do think that I have the right to own my own home.  Why would I rent so that someone else can own the home in a few years.  There is no value in doing that.  While I did get a nice house, I did not choose anything that would be unreasonable.  I do not hold any grudges against the banks for making a reasonable profit.  My loan was not very risky compared to most because I was responsible in my decisions.  The amount of profit should reflect the risk.  And I should not have to pay for other people making bad decisions.

z-dunbar,

It sounds like you made a lot of good choices, and we agree on many points.  However, you still make comments like "the amount of profit should reflect the risk" and "reasonable profit".  As I said before...

Again, my fundamental questions are, who gets to say how much a business can and cannot make, which businesses do they get to make that decision for, and where does it stop?

We are all, right or wrong, paying for other people making bad decisions.  Some cases are more obvious than others.  Auto insurance rates are higher due to high-risk drivers.  SOME of those drivers make bad choices such as DUI, excessive speed, etc.)  Your health insurance premiums are higher do to high-risk patients.  SOME of those people make bad choices (eating poorly, smoking, etc.)  Stores have to factor theft into their prices. 

The topic at hand here is the government using taxpayer funds to either pay someone's mortgage interest or force the banks to not charge it.  Some percentage of those people made bad choices that contributed to them not paying their mortgages.  Either way we, those who pay their mortgages and taxes are on the losing end. 

If the bank are losing money because the government is telling them they have to accept 3% for the next 5 years, do you think they are simply going to say "Ok, we make enough money anyway, we'll just take that off of our bottom line."  No, they are going to raise rates and fees on everyone else to compensate. 

As I said before: The banks should not get bailout money.  The homeowners should not get bailout money.  Let the chips fall where they may.  We survived one depression.  If it came to that again, we would survive again.

Amen to this.

What about relief for us homeowners that pay our mortage on-time, EVERY time?

It's bad enough so much of my pay goes to the corrupted welfare system, now I'm going to be footing the bill for irresponsible homebuyers and scamming, greedy banks? Great.

JoePic3, you are my new hero. Thank you for introducing intellegence into what all to often disolves into rhetoric.

My husband and I have worked hard for all of our adult lives. We struggle to pay our mortgage and expenses at times, but we neither want nor expect government to step in to bail us out. The government has no place in our finances. We signed our mortgage documents with open eyes and a healthy understanding of the binding contract to which we were agreeing. That being the case, I feel no responsibiities to others that gambled on adjustable interest rates, or could not do the dimple math to see that their mortgage was more than their income. It's time these people took responsibility for their choices and actions, and stopped waiting for the government ( their 'daddy') to clean up after them.

JoePic3, your posts are amazingly well written.  Have you considered writing a book? 

By the way, I agree with you 100% on this.  I'll tell you why it is a question, and why people answer yes to this.  Our society has sold it's integrity for chance to be the first in line for fee handouts of any kind.  It's gotten to the point now that if you don't try to be in the handouts line, then you are too far behind the rest to even compete.  This country has gotten way off track.  If we actually upheld the constitution and what is written there we would be a lot better off.

Think for a second people:  Do we really want a Democratic congress with Obama signing anything that they put through?  I know the Neo conservative Republicans aren't much better anymore, but the Democrats are still MUCH more socialistic.  I think I like it better when they are bickering.  They get less done.

I agree with all the anger and frustration, I am equally angery and frustrated.  This whole mess was brought on by the same idiots in congress that are making the most noise now.  Go "VOTE" the bums out, this is a perfect example of too much government interference and manipulation of a good system of checks and balances.  If the drive to "give" the American dream to everyone were not to have been introduced by certain members in congress we would not be talking about it now.  GO VOTE!